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loc - 18/05/2011 02:52 PM
#361

Quote:
Original Posted By aSAPlover
Hi loc,

the PBT that I am talking is the TOEFL paper-based test made by ETS.
It is recognized worldwide.

and Yes, I think that there is no PBT in Indo.

the PBT that you are talking maybe just a kind of TOEFL prediction which is not recognized worldwide.

Although the form of the test that you are talking is also paper based, but that is not the "pbt" test that I am talking ;)

Quote:
Original Posted By ivandjaw
I think what asaplover means is that official TOEFL pBT is not offered in Indonesia anymore as official TOEFL conducted by ETS only offer iBT in Indonesia. If you are still asked to take pBT, that means it is not an official TOEFL test conducted by ETS and most probably it is a prediction test conducted by education institution. Again, we are talking about official TOEFL which is valid for universities around the world. It may be valid for local universities to take prediction test but it is not valid if you are going to apply for universities overseas (UK / USA) or MNCs.

Quote:
Original Posted By ivandjaw
@loc
AFAIK, PBT is only offered by ETS at countries which has limited access to internet. You can visit and look for the information in their website, and I'm quite sure that Indonesia is not included in that list (I hope so as we have adequate internet connection in our country).
Moreover, universities in USA / UK / other accredited universities (aspal universities not included for sure) won't recognize TOEFL / other standardized test (GRE, GMAT, SAT, etc) if it is not conducted by ETS (Educational Testing Service), this includes those prediction tests, etc. In most of the cases they require the student to ask ETS to send their result directly to the university / organization.
However the cons of these standardized test are the cost which is quite expensive and also you can't "co-operate / cheat" with the test administrator whatsoever.


i think you're missing the point here: yes, i know PBT is not run by ETS in indonesia anymore as an int'l qualification (i wrote so in my previous post), but it doesn't change the fact that people are sometimes still required to take it (the PBT), or a modified version of it, by their universities or companies, for their internal use only (promotions, for example). it's usually taken from old TOEFL prep books or practice tests.

the question is: do we simply ignore people asking for help in this area by saying "it doesn't exist"?
ivandjaw - 18/05/2011 03:27 PM
#362

Quote:
Original Posted By loc
i think you're missing the point here: yes, i know PBT is not run by ETS in indonesia anymore as an int'l qualification (i wrote so in my previous post), but it doesn't change the fact that people are sometimes still required to take it (the PBT), or a modified version of it, by their universities or companies, for their internal use only (promotions, for example). it's usually taken from old TOEFL prep books or practice tests.

the question is: do we simply ignore people asking for help in this area by saying "it doesn't exist"?


yeah, i think i miss your point that you also mention about PBT that is not being administered by ETS

however I think you miss my & asaplover's point that we are not ignoring those people who are asking for help, we are just answering that we are not familiar with PBT thus we can't really help them. I hope you are able to get our point as well D ilovekaskus
loc - 18/05/2011 04:39 PM
#363

Quote:
Original Posted By ivandjaw
yeah, i think i miss your point that you also mention about PBT that is not being administered by ETS

however I think you miss my & asaplover's point that we are not ignoring those people who are asking for help, we are just answering that we are not familiar with PBT thus we can't really help them. I hope you are able to get our point as well D ilovekaskus


right. point taken thumbup: (having said that, "dismiss" was the word i was looking for, not "ignore" hammer\)

so folks, as the thread title says, we welcome your questions on PBT (yes, it's with a capital 'P'). i'll try to visit this thread more often. if we can answer your questions, good. if not, we'll forward it to ETS, in which case you might be promptly and swiftly be shipped to another country without internet connection to take the official ETS PBT there D
KLanese - 19/05/2011 04:27 PM
#364

Quote:
Original Posted By loc
right. point taken thumbup: (having said that, "dismiss" was the word i was looking for, not "ignore" hammer\)

so folks, as the thread title says, we welcome your questions on PBT (yes, it's with a capital 'P'). i'll try to visit this thread more often. if we can answer your questions, good. if not, we'll forward it to ETS, in which case you might be promptly and swiftly be shipped to another country without internet connection to take the official ETS PBT there D


Can I join? first flight and roundtrip to new jersey-Indo please D

things to share are getting more and more informative in here. Good on ya , mates beer:
ivandjaw - 19/05/2011 06:05 PM
#365

Quote:
Original Posted By KLanese
Can I join? first flight and roundtrip to new jersey-Indo please D

things to share are getting more and more informative in here. Good on ya , mates beer:


yes it is..

let's make this thread to become a high quality thread where people can find as many informations as they are able to..
loc - 20/05/2011 04:32 AM
#366

Quote:
Original Posted By KLanese
Can I join? first flight and roundtrip to new jersey-Indo please D


umm.. unfortunately, it won't be new jersey tho bro. more like maldives, nepal, or north korea D still interested?
ivandjaw - 20/05/2011 05:18 AM
#367

Quote:
Original Posted By loc
umm.. unfortunately, it won't be new jersey tho bro. more like maldives, nepal, or north korea D still interested?


ETS still offer both PBT and iBT in some country

here is the list, you can always toggle to search between PBT test center, iBT test center, and both.

as from what I have seen, it is confirmed that there are no PBT tests offered in Indonesia

http://www.ets.org/Media/Tests/TOEFL/tclists/BOTH_i.html
KLanese - 20/05/2011 10:15 AM
#368

Quote:
Original Posted By loc
umm.. unfortunately, it won't be new jersey tho bro. more like maldives, nepal, or north korea D still interested?


weks! what a shocker! ngakak

Quote:
Original Posted By ivandjaw
ETS still offer both PBT and iBT in some country

here is the list, you can always toggle to search between PBT test center, iBT test center, and both.

as from what I have seen, it is confirmed that there are no PBT tests offered in Indonesia

http://www.ets.org/Media/Tests/TOEFL/tclists/BOTH_i.html


yup! that's bloody unreal gan ivan thumbup:

No more official ETS PBT held in Indo. If some institutions still conduct the test in the name of TOEFL, it must be illegal! Watch out! beer:
ivandjaw - 20/05/2011 10:53 PM
#369

Quote:
Original Posted By KLanese
weks! what a shocker! ngakak



yup! that's bloody unreal gan ivan thumbup:

No more official ETS PBT held in Indo. If some institutions still conduct the test in the name of TOEFL, it must be illegal! Watch out! beer:


i would revise this statement:

it's not illegal (illegal = against the law), but it is just invalid and it won't be recognized by official institution around the world.

so officially we should not call the test as TOEFL PBT, but TOEFL prediction test.
aSAPlover - 21/05/2011 01:02 AM
#370

Quote:
Original Posted By ivandjaw

it's not illegal (illegal = against the law), but it is just invalid and it won't be recognized by official institution around the world.


Yes, it is only "valid" for the institution which helds the test (for its own need). The institution should not claim the test as TOEFL PBT, but TOEFL prediction test.


YESSS I could not agree more with this:
Quote:
Original Posted By ivandjaw

officially we should not call the test as TOEFL PBT, but TOEFL prediction test.



---------------------------------------------------------------------
{pls note : "Someone please yell at me in case you find any mistakes on my comment in terms of grammar, diction, spelling, etc..."}
loc - 25/05/2011 04:12 AM
#371

eh? why is it so quiet in here?

oh, well. let's rock the place a bit, shall we? D here's a tip on studying for the IELTS. if you're going to buy just one book to prep for the test, get this one:

Qualifications, iBT/PBT TOEFL & IELTS+All Related English Courses In Indonesia [Tips]

(if you're taking the academic module) or this one:

Qualifications, iBT/PBT TOEFL & IELTS+All Related English Courses In Indonesia [Tips]

(if you're taking the general training module).

at only 80 pages (Target Band 7) and 68 pages (Ace the IELTS), the books are packed with tips on how to tackle the various question types you'll find in the test and what phrases you should use in the Writing and Speaking modules. (i'm in no way associated with the writer and/or the publisher. it's just that i've used the books with my IELTS students and i absolutely love 'em!)

mind you, i'm not the only one. reviewers at Amazon.com drool over them, too! D
Vipergame - 26/05/2011 05:20 PM
#372

well, I just want to share my speaking tips when I prepared my IELTS last year. Hope it's really useful for all beer:

Part 1 - Warm-up
• The questions are easy, so the examiner cannot be sure of your level from only Part 1. You can give very easy answers, but this is a chance to make a good impression. If you give easy answers, the examiner will not know if you are Band 4 or maybe Band 5. If you give good, specific answers with explanations, the examiner will think you could be Band 6 or Band 7! D

• You can use this time to practice making good sentences. If you wait until Part 2 and Part 3 to give longer answers, you might not do so well. Athletes and musicians always take time to warm up. You should too! beer:

Part 2 - the "Long Turn"
• The biggest mistake students make is to not take notes. The examiner will give you a piece of paper and a pencil to take notes because speaking for two minutes without stopping is not easy. Even native English speakers will have trouble speaking for two minutes! Students who don't take notes often say, "Uh, I think maybe, um.... Um..., well... It seems to me...". "Uh" and "Um" are Band ZERO! Use notes to help you remember what you want to say. If not, you WILL get a low score. \(

• Use the P.R.E.P. method. Start with "P" - make one sentence about your main Point. Then give two or three sentences to provide "R", a Reason. Next give "E", an Example. Describe the example using two or three sentences. Finish by repeating "P", your main Point, but use a different sentence. If you have extra time, give a second example. :2thumbup

• You must practice! Use a watch and give yourself one minute to take notes on a topic, then two minutes to make four or five sentences using the PREP method. You should practice one or two topics every day before the test. :bola

• Do not worry about the time. That is the examiner's job. He or she will tell you when to stop. :cool

Part 3 - General Questions
• Part 3 is the hardest part of the Speaking Test and it comes very fast. Most students aren't ready. When you hear the examiner say "And now I'd like to ask you some more GENERAL questions RELATED to your Part 2 topic", you know Part 3 is starting. Be ready! takut

• Do NOT take so much time. Two sentences for each answer is usually enough. If you have a long introduction, the examiner will think you don't know how to answer the question. hammer:

• Use the General-Specific technique. As soon as you hear the question, give a general opinion about the topic. Then give a specific reason or example in the next sentence or two. shakehand2
ivandjaw - 26/05/2011 10:50 PM
#373

Quote:
Original Posted By Vipergame
well, I just want to share my speaking tips when I prepared my IELTS last year. Hope it's really useful for all beer:

Part 1 - Warm-up
• The questions are easy, so the examiner cannot be sure of your level from only Part 1. You can give very easy answers, but this is a chance to make a good impression. If you give easy answers, the examiner will not know if you are Band 4 or maybe Band 5. If you give good, specific answers with explanations, the examiner will think you could be Band 6 or Band 7! D

• You can use this time to practice making good sentences. If you wait until Part 2 and Part 3 to give longer answers, you might not do so well. Athletes and musicians always take time to warm up. You should too! beer:

Part 2 - the "Long Turn"
• The biggest mistake students make is to not take notes. The examiner will give you a piece of paper and a pencil to take notes because speaking for two minutes without stopping is not easy. Even native English speakers will have trouble speaking for two minutes! Students who don't take notes often say, "Uh, I think maybe, um.... Um..., well... It seems to me...". "Uh" and "Um" are Band ZERO! Use notes to help you remember what you want to say. If not, you WILL get a low score. \(

• Use the P.R.E.P. method. Start with "P" - make one sentence about your main Point. Then give two or three sentences to provide "R", a Reason. Next give "E", an Example. Describe the example using two or three sentences. Finish by repeating "P", your main Point, but use a different sentence. If you have extra time, give a second example. :2thumbup

• You must practice! Use a watch and give yourself one minute to take notes on a topic, then two minutes to make four or five sentences using the PREP method. You should practice one or two topics every day before the test. :bola

• Do not worry about the time. That is the examiner's job. He or she will tell you when to stop. :cool

Part 3 - General Questions
• Part 3 is the hardest part of the Speaking Test and it comes very fast. Most students aren't ready. When you hear the examiner say "And now I'd like to ask you some more GENERAL questions RELATED to your Part 2 topic", you know Part 3 is starting. Be ready! takut

• Do NOT take so much time. Two sentences for each answer is usually enough. If you have a long introduction, the examiner will think you don't know how to answer the question. hammer:

• Use the General-Specific technique. As soon as you hear the question, give a general opinion about the topic. Then give a specific reason or example in the next sentence or two. shakehand2


This is great!! :2thumbup :2thumbup

I'm not really sure, but it seems that the marking of a speaking section is always a lil' bit more subjective compared to other section. This apply for both TOEFL and IELTS although they should have some kind of standard in marking.

For TOEFL, your speaking will be reviewed by 2 different markers where if there is a big difference in the score given by the 2 markers, a third marker will be then asked to verify this discrepancies. But still, it really depends on the listener unlike your speaking / listening / reading where there is a set of specific standard in marking.

I guess this happen to IELTS as well as it is against human that you are speaking with, hence it will really depend on him/her to give the appropriate her based on his/her standard.
KLanese - 28/05/2011 11:12 AM
#374

Quote:
Original Posted By Vipergame
well, I just want to share my speaking tips when I prepared my IELTS last year. Hope it's really useful for all beer:

Part 1 - Warm-up
• The questions are easy, so the examiner cannot be sure of your level from only Part 1. You can give very easy answers, but this is a chance to make a good impression. If you give easy answers, the examiner will not know if you are Band 4 or maybe Band 5. If you give good, specific answers with explanations, the examiner will think you could be Band 6 or Band 7! D

• You can use this time to practice making good sentences. If you wait until Part 2 and Part 3 to give longer answers, you might not do so well. Athletes and musicians always take time to warm up. You should too! beer:

Part 2 - the "Long Turn"
• The biggest mistake students make is to not take notes. The examiner will give you a piece of paper and a pencil to take notes because speaking for two minutes without stopping is not easy. Even native English speakers will have trouble speaking for two minutes! Students who don't take notes often say, "Uh, I think maybe, um.... Um..., well... It seems to me...". "Uh" and "Um" are Band ZERO! Use notes to help you remember what you want to say. If not, you WILL get a low score. \(

• Use the P.R.E.P. method. Start with "P" - make one sentence about your main Point. Then give two or three sentences to provide "R", a Reason. Next give "E", an Example. Describe the example using two or three sentences. Finish by repeating "P", your main Point, but use a different sentence. If you have extra time, give a second example. :2thumbup

• You must practice! Use a watch and give yourself one minute to take notes on a topic, then two minutes to make four or five sentences using the PREP method. You should practice one or two topics every day before the test. :bola

• Do not worry about the time. That is the examiner's job. He or she will tell you when to stop. :cool

Part 3 - General Questions
• Part 3 is the hardest part of the Speaking Test and it comes very fast. Most students aren't ready. When you hear the examiner say "And now I'd like to ask you some more GENERAL questions RELATED to your Part 2 topic", you know Part 3 is starting. Be ready! takut

• Do NOT take so much time. Two sentences for each answer is usually enough. If you have a long introduction, the examiner will think you don't know how to answer the question. hammer:

• Use the General-Specific technique. As soon as you hear the question, give a general opinion about the topic. Then give a specific reason or example in the next sentence or two. shakehand2


such a great share agan vipergame! why dont you hang out more frequent on EF so that you can help many people with your knowledge?
furthermore, I really like the P.R.E.P method, it seems so natural but good strategy to achieve positive impression from the examiner about our verbal English beer:


Quote:
Original Posted By ivandjaw
This is great!! :2thumbup :2thumbup

I'm not really sure, but it seems that the marking of a speaking section is always a lil' bit more subjective compared to other section. This apply for both TOEFL and IELTS although they should have some kind of standard in marking.

For TOEFL, your speaking will be reviewed by 2 different markers where if there is a big difference in the score given by the 2 markers, a third marker will be then asked to verify this discrepancies. But still, it really depends on the listener unlike your speaking / listening / reading where there is a set of specific standard in marking.

I guess this happen to IELTS as well as it is against human that you are speaking with, hence it will really depend on him/her to give the appropriate her based on his/her standard.


Agree to you too gan ivan. Subjectivity, however, still occurs in a natural and realistic 2 way conversation. Hopefully that won't discourage the test takers to keep trying the best on the speaking section.
loc - 29/05/2011 02:39 AM
#375

Quote:
Original Posted By ivandjaw
This is great!! :2thumbup :2thumbup

I'm not really sure, but it seems that the marking of a speaking section is always a lil' bit more subjective compared to other section. This apply for both TOEFL and IELTS although they should have some kind of standard in marking.

For TOEFL, your speaking will be reviewed by 2 different markers where if there is a big difference in the score given by the 2 markers, a third marker will be then asked to verify this discrepancies. But still, it really depends on the listener unlike your speaking / listening / reading where there is a set of specific standard in marking.

I guess this happen to IELTS as well as it is against human that you are speaking with, hence it will really depend on him/her to give the appropriate her based on his/her standard.

whatever english test you take, the speaking and the writing tests are always subjective. that's why for the IELTS (dunno about TOEFL):

[*]they have strict requirements that you have to qualify for before acceptance into the examiner training;
[*]they train and retrain the examiners vigorously and regularly;
[*]they won't hesitate to fail you in the training if you don't follow the band descriptor/marking scheme religiously (out of 12 people in my batch, 5 failed and never made it as examiners; they were native speakers, mind you);
[*]the band descriptors (examiner's version) are comprehensively detailed;
[*]the IELTS speaking module is usually and randomly recorded and the recording is then sent to cambridgeesol for band verification; no examiner can avoid this. the writing module papers are always sent to cambridge.


yes, the human factor will always be present in subjective exams, but it can be minimized by following the procedure to the letter. besides, if you're an examiner, you're likely to want to keep your job: the money's good! cendols so you don't really want to fool around there D
sasamakan - 29/05/2011 12:48 PM
#376

I took the IELTS test yesterday
Listening section was so hard, but the reading is much easier \(
Unfortunately, I got the hard topic on speaking test (Industry, Farming, Health and Food). I can speak clearly, less "eeeeemmm" and speak to the point, but lack of vocab \( (I also avoid simple answer like just say yes or no)
My friends got the easier topic (Travel, Leisure, Study, Workplace, Movies) \(
I hope I can get more than 5.5 from the test \(
ivandjaw - 29/05/2011 03:42 PM
#377

Quote:
Original Posted By sasamakan
I took the IELTS test yesterday
Listening section was so hard, but the reading is much easier \(
Unfortunately, I got the hard topic on speaking test (Industry, Farming, Health and Food). I can speak clearly, less "eeeeemmm" and speak to the point, but lack of vocab \( (I also avoid simple answer like just say yes or no)
My friends got the easier topic (Travel, Leisure, Study, Workplace, Movies) \(
I hope I can get more than 5.5 from the test \(


The "ehmmm" sound is called as glottal stop.

Nevertheless, glottal stop is fine as long as it is not excessively used, because it is normal for people to think before speak, however too much glottal stop means u never really plan before you speak.

Anyway, topics are really based on luck however if you are able to show your ability in vocabulary I believe it will be an advantage.
ivandjaw - 29/05/2011 03:55 PM
#378

Quote:
Original Posted By loc
whatever english test you take, the speaking and the writing tests are always subjective. that's why for the IELTS (dunno about TOEFL):

[*]they have strict requirements that you have to qualify for before acceptance into the examiner training;
[*]they train and retrain the examiners vigorously and regularly;
[*]they won't hesitate to fail you in the training if you don't follow the band descriptor/marking scheme religiously (out of 12 people in my batch, 5 failed and never made it as examiners; they were native speakers, mind you);
[*]the band descriptors (examiner's version) are comprehensively detailed;
[*]the IELTS speaking module is usually and randomly recorded and the recording is then sent to cambridgeesol for band verification; no examiner can avoid this. the writing module papers are always sent to cambridge.


yes, the human factor will always be present in subjective exams, but it can be minimized by following the procedure to the letter. besides, if you're an examiner, you're likely to want to keep your job: the money's good! cendols so you don't really want to fool around there D


This is a great information, I have no idea for IELTS though but it turns out that I'm correct that they have a very strict rule and standard for marking writing & speaking test.

Btw who are the marker of IELTS speaking / writing test? Are they a full time or part time worker? This is because what I know, ETS employs grad student to mark the writing & speaking section for TOEFL & analytical writing for GRE.
sasamakan - 29/05/2011 07:53 PM
#379

Quote:
Original Posted By ivandjaw
The "ehmmm" sound is called as glottal stop.

Nevertheless, glottal stop is fine as long as it is not excessively used, because it is normal for people to think before speak, however too much glottal stop means u never really plan before you speak.

Anyway, topics are really based on luck however if you are able to show your ability in vocabulary I believe it will be an advantage.


Yes, I just afraid if I can't get the score more than 6 because of less vocabulary \(
My passport is still detained by Switzerland immigration. They didn't want to accept my visa if I get less than 5.5 \(
loc - 29/05/2011 11:59 PM
#380

Quote:
Original Posted By ivandjaw
This is a great information, I have no idea for IELTS though but it turns out that I'm correct that they have a very strict rule and standard for marking writing & speaking test.

Btw who are the marker of IELTS speaking / writing test? Are they a full time or part time worker? This is because what I know, ETS employs grad student to mark the writing & speaking section for TOEFL & analytical writing for GRE.

i can't remember precisely now what the requirements were, but if i remember two of them correctly, you need to have a native-speaker level of english (this one's easy; all native speaker teachers would qualify) and at least two-year post-CELTA (or equivalent) teaching experience (this effectively denies entry to quite a sizable group of native speaker teachers working in indonesia D)

the training includes marking several assigned writing scripts and recorded speaking tests. for the trainees, the possible outcomes are:

[*]they pass first time for both speaking and writing modules;
[*]they pass after extra assignments for both;
[*]they pass only for one of the modules (speaking only or writing only); or
[*]they fail both modules.



to qualify for a first time pass, a trainee must not deviate from the predetermined bands for those assigned papers, even if it's just by 0.5 (a half). oh and one more thing: if you're a non-native speaker but your english is deemed to be of that level, then you'll need to take the IELTS test itself and get no less than band 9 for the speaking and writing modules, and band 8 for the listening and reading modules.

after the trainee has successfully completed the training, then they will mark the papers on demand, meaning they will be called upon to mark an IELTS test only when there is one running. the examiners usually keep their day jobs.
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Home > CASCISCUS > ENGLISH > English Education and Literature > Qualifications, iBT/PBT TOEFL & IELTS+All Related English Courses In Indonesia [Tips]