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staybycool - 19/12/2011 01:27 PM
#181

My problem same with u friend..
because i think i have big problem about grammer..
but today i will learn anymore about it.. iloveindonesias iloveindonesias
agrisatrio - 23/12/2011 02:23 PM
#182

i think learn more vocab is better than learn grammar. because without vocab you can't make grammatical sentence
strafnemowkcil - 23/12/2011 02:54 PM
#183

this is nothing different when someone asks you "which one should be placed in the first on priority? economy or education?" so I would feel it was like a dilemma if I were asked this when learning english for the 1st time -_-
inocha - 23/12/2011 09:15 PM
#184

vocabulary first \)b

coz it easier than grammar
nalenalen - 25/12/2011 01:24 PM
#185
Love this!
Oooo, how I love the following opinion & tips from blappi!!! cendolb
Currently I'm improving my English skills, especially English speaking. I'm going to take TOEFL iBT next January 2012. Is there anyone here who will take the same test with me? I wish you a very good grade/score. Aamiin. \)

I would like to say thank you to TS, blappi, and other juragans who gave their opinions. I'm very helped \)b.



Quote:
Original Posted By blappi
I live overseas for 5 years now and most of the time I couldn't finish a sentence in English without any grammar mistakes lol.

My English teacher used to say that even Western people make mistakes with grammar when they speak, but they always get their grammar right when they write something. So I guess that's the best way to learn: by writing paragraphs in English (story, report, reviews etc) with the correct grammar. I remember that about 6 years ago when I first studied English, my teacher always started the lesson with random conversations, then we would study grammar or something, then as homework, he would give me an open-ended question that I need to answer in English, and it had to be at least 1 page long.

Also when you speak in English, try not to rush. Speak in a slow or normal speed but try to use the correct grammar. You will feel better when you can finish a sentence with minimal grammar mistake, eventhough it takes longer time for you to finish the sentence. When you get used to speaking English, then the pace will pick up automatically. As for vocabulary, when you speak or read or write in English regularly, you will gain more vocabulary without you even know it. So for now, don't rush.
Good luck.



And after I continue reading, I found this awesome tips, from HermawanChenz. Thank you very much mr. HermawanChenz. D \)

Quote:
Original Posted By HermawanChenz
Do u know the 4 aspects of a language??

First is listening, then speaking, then reading then writing..

A baby first listens to his parents, then he speaks by copying what they say..
later on he learns to read, and by doing so, he will come across some new vocabularies, lastly, he knows how to write..

If you want to be able to be good at English, don't just be good @ one aspect, as
they are related to one another..

Long ago, a native speaker gave me a seminar about Teaching English.. let me share you what I got.. Language is for communication, so if you speak using bad grammar but others understand you, it means u have made a good communication.. however that is not enough, as if you speak using bad grammar it shows that you are not educated.. let's compare with Indonesian language.. let's compare you and tukang becak.. you can speak Indonesian, and so does he, but what makes you different from him? the answer is that you are more educated than him as when you speak, you use Tata Bahasa Indonesia, while he doesn't.. so if you speak without using the correct grammar, you are just like a tukang becak, because you can't use the correct grammar while the one you are talking to can..

As a basic step, using bad grammar while speaking is still fine as long as your partner understands you, and that's communication, but still for further level of communication, you need good grammar especially when you want to make a presentation or when you have to write an academic composition, etc.. If you can use good grammar while you speak it means your English has improved..

As a conclusion, for the basic step, enrich your vocabularies, but don't only focus on enriching your vocabularies, at the same time, you need to listen to people talk a lot, then copy how they speak, because speaking is copying, you copy not only the grammar, but the pronunciation as well..

Good Luck..




Later, I found a very striking comment by Lux.Ivan. D

Quote:
Original Posted By Lux.Ivan
Well, in my opinion, we should learn grammar first. However, as we learn it, we should not neglect the vocabularies because both of them are the essential elements in English Language. Hence, they are intertwined with each other.

Writing an English essay is about conveying our ideas to the readers. Thus, we want to make them understand clearly what is our stand in that piece of writing. Additionally, we want to make our writing as striking as possible to the readers, such that, better still, we make an indelible impression to them. In order for these objectives to be achieved, we need clear expressions in our writing and, in this case, grammar is involved.

Similarly, the idea of conversing in English is to communicate with others effectively. "But, some English-speaking people do not bother about grammar when they converse, yet they can still communicate well". Yes, it is true to the extent of informal speech. However, we, inevitably, will face a situation where we are required to communicate with proper English Language (during formal speech). How embarrassing it is if we cannot communicate using proper English in that kind of situation!

Indeed, using a thematic vocabularies, whether in writing or in speaking, is as crucial as using proper English Language because certain vocabularies enable us to convey our ideas better and give a deep impression. Succinctly, let me illustrate my view with examples,

Sentence 1 (Grammar): Many Pakistanis were afraid in the face of hunger, and, in the wake of it, good men start to become the opposite. People are in the grip of fear and they become uncontrolled.

Sentence 2 (Vocabulary): Much men quail because famine and starvation. Many magnanimous person been ruthless, the downtrodden person becoming frenzy they go.

Sentence 3 (Grammar + Vocab): Great civilizations quailed in the face of famine and starvation, and in the ensuing chaos good men turned on each other, hearts silenced by fear and minds driven into a frenzy by the sheer weight of the people in Pakistan.

Which is the most striking one?
oichidan - 25/12/2011 03:12 PM
#186

Learn both, but focus on your vocab library.
Enhancing your vocab library could ease you in learning grammar, and learning grammar can make you decide which is the correct meaning for a word which has more than one meaning.

Owning an enhanced vocab library can enrich your english linguistic abilities.
id.samaran.nih - 26/12/2011 12:00 PM
#187

Here is a club with native English speaker:
https://www.kaskus.co.id/showthread.php?t=11364661
diventone - 26/12/2011 03:59 PM
#188
my opinion
in my opinion,choossing to studying grammar first is better,i give u a solution,studying grammar by listening to music,and u 'll get the grammar and vocab without different times..ok,wish u be the best!:addfriends:addfriends:addfriends
debanner - 26/12/2011 06:21 PM
#189

both of them is important..
but the first to be learn is vocab.
i think if there is no vocab although you learn about grammar, u just know pattern of word but you dont know mean about that..
frequently, the further of vocab you collect, you can arrange and form the word with grammar and you can understand what the meaning and grammar those vocabs.d
hendra.agusta - 27/12/2011 02:07 AM
#190

well you can go to http://coaching-ilmu.blogspot.com. we can learn English together there.
homeland99 - 08/01/2012 10:42 AM
#191

Quote:
Original Posted By Sticker12
i think we have to understand the basic tenses and know more vocabulary.i have a same experience with you,i dont really like grammar,so i just improve my vocabulary.because i believe that five basic tenses help me to learn other tenses naturally.



Agree...

the point of talking is when your partner understand...

improve vocabulary and basic tenses
:2thumbup:2thumbup:2thumbup
Loveya - 11/01/2012 03:04 PM
#192

i learn english by listening to a lot of songs.
then i want to sing it so i have to know the lyrics, that's the start.
im carrying a pocket dictionary everywhere, so i learn vocab first.

by listening to a song, basically you will know the words, the pronunciation, how to spell it, and the grammar automatically.

it started when i was in SD and continue until now. and it works very well
because i know lots of vocab, i can listen well, and i can read well.. i got a high toefl score eventhough my grammar is not very good.

i can do basic grammar, but its not always correct
Waynea - 24/01/2012 07:03 PM
#193

Grammar and vocabulary, both of them are very grounding aspect in terms of English profiency. Since with lack knowledge of vocabulary u may end up in confusion or obstruction in conveying what r u trying to convey.
While grammar, it has no lack of importance as grammar is not always about the right structure or rules u r using. Grammar, as I believe, has its own dimension in constructing meaning.

For example: my friend said "I went to Bali"
in this case, the sentence uses past tense in which since the sentence uses past tense i become fully informed that my friend already WENT to Bali! even whithout he says the exact time of when did he go to BALI.

that's my opinion on grammar and vocabulary. While for the way I learned them, I can categorize them into:


[*]Grammar learned consciously (do some practice, read books and analyze the grammar)

[*]Vocabulary learned subconsciously (listening to songs, playing games)


Obviously, my ways of learning seem to be old fashion, but I like them, since it simply works for me Yb
phaditama - 27/01/2012 05:53 PM
#194

Quote:
Original Posted By diventone
in my opinion,choossing to studying grammar first is better,i give u a solution,studying grammar by listening to music,and u 'll get the grammar and vocab without different times..ok,wish u be the best!:addfriends:addfriends:addfriends


To the person I quoted, I respect your idea but I honestly don't recommend learning grammatically correct English from song lyrics. Song lyrics are sometimes poetic. And poetic language is fragile in its structure. It is better to study grammar from a Harry Potter novel book.

Just do not force yourself to understand long sentences and complicated grammars. First build your vocabulary and use A LOT of simple past/present/future tenses. These three are your biggest foundation on English.
icendruw311007 - 29/01/2012 09:15 PM
#195

maybe i have different opinion
in my opinion, the best way to learn grammar is by teaching the grammar to your junior (it can be your brother/sister or it can be your friend in lower grade)
by teaching grammar you will forced to learn grammar cz you have to teach it to your junior. if you don't know or the junior is smarter than you, it will be embarrassing. so here you have to really really learn grammar. than you can master the grammar

(based from own experience)ngakak
alvinxr - 01/02/2012 01:00 AM
#196

They both are important components but I think we should learn vocab first, that's what my english teacher told me (ask) the best way learning english, grammar first or vocab?
sarmag - 02/02/2012 01:32 PM
#197

we've same problem gan, my grammar is below zero \(
but i still have a big problem, nervous.
i think majoring vocab is more important than grammar in case of practicing spokenly.
nevertheless, as we know both of them can be separated rite.
raryu03 - 04/02/2012 01:40 AM
#198

Americans from birth speak English without studying grammar first.
So I prefer learn vocab first than grammar.
rahan - 04/02/2012 07:25 PM
#199

Learn the grammar. Read the Dictionary. Why do you have to separate it?
ichwan14120 - 08/02/2012 07:08 AM
#200

in my opinion we should learn about vocabulary first.after we have many vocabularies, we can start learn grammar..
in my opinion the hardest thing to learn about english is tenses.i always had low score about it..
ngakaksngakaks
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